The second hour of Shadi and Damir's wide-ranging conversation on all things Islam and liberalism with Mustafa Akyol, author of the new book Reopening Muslim Minds. They wade deeper into various controversies, including whether Islam will follow a similar trajectory as Christianity, apostasy laws, the case of Turkey, whether democracy is a means or an end, and what all of this means for American foreign policy.

In case you missed it, Part 1 of their conversation with Mustafa is available here.