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Tom Barson's avatar

There are many striking statements in this little survey of the meanings of "giving up," but to me the most striking was in the aside concerning religion:

"This is why I find religion(s) intellectually appealing even when I don’t think they’re true — they are ways of structuring choice and committing ourselves to present and future sacrifices. In this sense, they are statements about the kinds of people we think we should be and might actually become. Sacrifice, in this sense, is “a form of prediction.”

WoC has been flirting with this idea that religion is not so much true as beneficial and -- to me this is the really interesting corollary -- that it's not religious beliefs that benefit us so much as practicing a religion, and religious or spiritual practice has always been associated with "giving up" something for a greater good. One word for such giver-uppers was "ascetic," which comes from the ancient Greek word for athletic training, a goal-directed, self-denying practice. (Loyola's "Spiritual Exercises" were a direct riff on this idea.)

But if it's the practice that counts, need it be linked to religion? And do the beliefs motivating a practice eo ipso count as a religion? I was hoping for a deeper dive into these questions -- of liberalism as a practice -- in the podcast with Alex Lefebvre, but the siren-song of liberalism as a belief system was just too strong on that occasion. But there is WoC subscriber, David DeSteno, whose book "How God Works" really delves into the evidence of benefit of religious practice (prayer, meditation, sacrifice, etc.) and I would recommend the book to those interested and DeSteno, if WoC is serious about this theme, as a possible podcast guest.

But since Shadi is in a giving-up mood, what should he give up? Hot takes, obviously. :-)

Fascinating post, thanks.

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Virginia Smith's avatar

I think about giving up a lot. I’m so tired of trying to steer our course, our destiny toward what we believe is the good outcome. I am so sick and tired of hearing and reading about trump. I despise the guy, no question about it but I’ve heard enough for a lifetime of anguish.

Leave it alone; let the chips fall where they may. I feel done with it. And in 10 years will I even be here? Or will trump??

But alas, I get stirred up again and again.

It’s in my nature.

One of the best and one of the worst things about Americans is our undying hope. We can’t conceive history going any other way except toward the “good”. Even though we have plenty examples of horror and miserable choices leading to terror and death for many

We still believe in the goodness of our mission here on this planet. We believe we’re the best, the most caring and benevolent people.

That’s ideal. That’s who we are and when danger threatens us (trump and his cronies) battering down our gates, we still don’t believe we’ll fall down

I’ve had this conversation with many people who are not American. They don’t share our feelings because their history tells them something very different. They have been conquered, enslaved, wiped out, destroyed

They know it can happen again.

While we feel invincible

So I guess I’ll stay on the edge and keep hoping even if things go really bad

On the other hand, my true hope is in our people, that there are enough right thinking Americans who won’t let the worst happen

Our motto “ in God we trust” is like passing the buck but this is a joint effort. I remind myself on days when I can’t stand another word about trump, I’m not in this alone

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