The discussion was whether "Muslim Americans" should abstain from voting since this single issue of military support for Israel in confronting anti-Western, anti-democratic Islamists. American democracy is not a single issue proposition and collective functioning of the nation requires citizen participation on a broad range of national p…
The discussion was whether "Muslim Americans" should abstain from voting since this single issue of military support for Israel in confronting anti-Western, anti-democratic Islamists. American democracy is not a single issue proposition and collective functioning of the nation requires citizen participation on a broad range of national priorities not just personal concerns.
Hamas is not 'Palestine' but a proxy of Islamist Iran. The same goes for Hezbollah and the Houthis. This is an ugly and brutal situation, but it was precipitated and initiated by Islamists and according to brutal Islamist rules of war. Yes, a lot of innocents are being killed, but to Hamas, this is a feature not a flaw.
As a religion, Islam has fundamental clashes with Western democracy. It only recognizes the religious over the secular rather than the reverse at the core of democracy.
"Democracy is a system that is contrary to Islam, because it gives the power of legislation to the people or to those who represent them (such as members of Parliament). Based on that, in democracy legislative authority is given to someone other than Allah, rather it is given to the people and their deputies, and what matters is not their consensus but the majority. Thus what the majority agree upon becomes laws that are binding on the nation, even if it is contrary to common sense, religious teaching or reason. In these systems legislation has been promulgated allowing abortion, same-sex marriage and usurious interest (riba); the rulings of sharee‘ah have been abolished; and fornication/adultery and the drinking of alcohol are permitted. In fact this system is at war with Islam and its followers.
Allah has told us in the His Book that legislative authority belongs to Him alone, and that He is the wisest of those who issue rulings and judge. He has forbidden the association of anyone with Him in His authority, and no one is better than Him in ruling.
So the judgement is only with Allah, the Most High, the Most Great!”
Yes, a democracy is messier than a religious autocracy, but if you're going to be an American, then either get with the local program or relocate to a like-minded Muslim country probably ruled by an autocrat. That is the fundamental choice so pick one and quit acting like spoiled children. If you really care about the fate of fellow Muslims in the region, then actively help with your wealth and time to aid those caught in the murderous rhetoric of radical Islam. Neither the U.S. or Israel can force the eradication of radical Islam and bring about a long overdue reformation and modernizing of Islam to align with the realities of a globalized secular world.
I basically agree, minus the inflammatory language. I believe the reference to the Reformation in this thread was intended to speak merely of the demotion of religious authority in favor of broader sociopolitical systems for negotiating and ensuring shared visions and plans for moving forward.
Well said. My harsh rhetoric was intended for its shock value to startle one from socialized illusion to the reality of the here and now. Christianity had its Reformation resulting in the Renaissance and humanism at the core of Western liberal secularism. Judaism had its reformation with most of its modern leaders being secular Jews. It was reformed Jews who established democracy in Israel, an abnormality in the Middle East even today. The Muslim world seems stuck in its passive obedience to religious orthodoxy and, rather than reforming, seems determined to regress away from modern humanism. Mixing religious orthodoxy with politics leads to failed states such as Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. The spell must be broken. “Insanity is repeating an action and expecting different results.”
The discussion was whether "Muslim Americans" should abstain from voting since this single issue of military support for Israel in confronting anti-Western, anti-democratic Islamists. American democracy is not a single issue proposition and collective functioning of the nation requires citizen participation on a broad range of national priorities not just personal concerns.
Hamas is not 'Palestine' but a proxy of Islamist Iran. The same goes for Hezbollah and the Houthis. This is an ugly and brutal situation, but it was precipitated and initiated by Islamists and according to brutal Islamist rules of war. Yes, a lot of innocents are being killed, but to Hamas, this is a feature not a flaw.
As a religion, Islam has fundamental clashes with Western democracy. It only recognizes the religious over the secular rather than the reverse at the core of democracy.
"Democracy is a system that is contrary to Islam, because it gives the power of legislation to the people or to those who represent them (such as members of Parliament). Based on that, in democracy legislative authority is given to someone other than Allah, rather it is given to the people and their deputies, and what matters is not their consensus but the majority. Thus what the majority agree upon becomes laws that are binding on the nation, even if it is contrary to common sense, religious teaching or reason. In these systems legislation has been promulgated allowing abortion, same-sex marriage and usurious interest (riba); the rulings of sharee‘ah have been abolished; and fornication/adultery and the drinking of alcohol are permitted. In fact this system is at war with Islam and its followers.
Allah has told us in the His Book that legislative authority belongs to Him alone, and that He is the wisest of those who issue rulings and judge. He has forbidden the association of anyone with Him in His authority, and no one is better than Him in ruling.
So the judgement is only with Allah, the Most High, the Most Great!”
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/98134/concept-of-democracy-in-islam
Yes, a democracy is messier than a religious autocracy, but if you're going to be an American, then either get with the local program or relocate to a like-minded Muslim country probably ruled by an autocrat. That is the fundamental choice so pick one and quit acting like spoiled children. If you really care about the fate of fellow Muslims in the region, then actively help with your wealth and time to aid those caught in the murderous rhetoric of radical Islam. Neither the U.S. or Israel can force the eradication of radical Islam and bring about a long overdue reformation and modernizing of Islam to align with the realities of a globalized secular world.
I basically agree, minus the inflammatory language. I believe the reference to the Reformation in this thread was intended to speak merely of the demotion of religious authority in favor of broader sociopolitical systems for negotiating and ensuring shared visions and plans for moving forward.
Well said. My harsh rhetoric was intended for its shock value to startle one from socialized illusion to the reality of the here and now. Christianity had its Reformation resulting in the Renaissance and humanism at the core of Western liberal secularism. Judaism had its reformation with most of its modern leaders being secular Jews. It was reformed Jews who established democracy in Israel, an abnormality in the Middle East even today. The Muslim world seems stuck in its passive obedience to religious orthodoxy and, rather than reforming, seems determined to regress away from modern humanism. Mixing religious orthodoxy with politics leads to failed states such as Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. The spell must be broken. “Insanity is repeating an action and expecting different results.”