There are levels to my comment. It’s hard to summarize succinctly but I will give it a shot.
First, I would ask from whence (like that?) arises the need to be sure that he will be punished in some eternal life. I know why you think that, but why do you think you need to feel that? It’s a di…
There are levels to my comment. It’s hard to summarize succinctly but I will give it a shot.
First, I would ask from whence (like that?) arises the need to be sure that he will be punished in some eternal life. I know why you think that, but why do you think you need to feel that? It’s a different question.
Put yourself in the mind of someone who doesn’t believe in god. People invented god to explain things they don’t understand or don’t know (why is there lightning?); to soothe them when confronted by big fears (what happens when we die?); and to provide an external authority to social constructs around right and wrong (ethics becomes morals, don’t just listen to the chief about why you shouldn’t do that, there is someone even more powerful you’ll meet later from whom the chief derives authority). But if there is not god, you don’t have to search for the reason why god allows bad things to happen to good people. It’s actually quite soothing. There’s nothing we can do about punishing bad people who don’t get punished in life and no one is waiting on the other side to punish them. It’s pointless to worry about. People have the ability to be terrible and we punish them or we don’t. But if you believe in god and you believe that god is good, you really need to know that putin won’t get away with it. However that’s your need to feel that, to feel reassured. So you invent god, the extra-innings punisher.
Or, alternatively, consider a god who has much bigger things on his mind than the terrible goings-on of one species on one planet in the entire universe. All-powerful perhaps but also concerned with galactic, infinite and timeless happenings.
Next, put yourself in the mind of a person who believes in god but isn’t hung up on whether god is “good” or there is some delayed justice post death. I don’t know, some ancient tribal god who deals strictly in war-making and enemy vanquishing, is an angry and vengeful and cruel guy, and can be channeled when properly appeased but also can just ruin people’s lives when he feels like it. Again, no need to worry about why bad things happen to good people. It’s just life.
Or, next, yet closely related, maybe a god who does believe in the good but you are sure (or as putin at least pretends to be, though I think it’s a bit of an act) that it’s your side that’s the good and god’s on your team. That pretty much defines most of history, no? Allowed for plenty of conquest and slaughter in the name of god, right?
Fascinating. Thanks Marc for walking me through some of these possibilities. To your first q, I guess I'd say I need to feel that because without it, there is no justice, and I would like there to be justice. If there is no justice, then it's not soothing at all (at least not from my perspective): it means that everything is arbitrary and random, the rule of the strong over the weak. Then, there is no transendence and without transcendence meaning becomes that much more difficult to come by. On the last question, I suppose my reply's pretty simple. I believe I'm right when it comes to Putin. Because if God is in Putin's side, then God is *not* the most justice and according to Islamic teaching, God *is* the most just.
Fair point. I guess I should clarify what I mean by soothing - that our desires aren’t what determines things, that things are outside of our control, can help us move toward acceptance because there is often literally nothing we can do. Thus needing something to be and wanting it to be are not necessarily conjoined. We can want things to be that just can’t be and then we learn to live without them, whereas needing something to be that isn’t can leave us feeling stranded
I keep starting an answer and getting distracted!
There are levels to my comment. It’s hard to summarize succinctly but I will give it a shot.
First, I would ask from whence (like that?) arises the need to be sure that he will be punished in some eternal life. I know why you think that, but why do you think you need to feel that? It’s a different question.
Put yourself in the mind of someone who doesn’t believe in god. People invented god to explain things they don’t understand or don’t know (why is there lightning?); to soothe them when confronted by big fears (what happens when we die?); and to provide an external authority to social constructs around right and wrong (ethics becomes morals, don’t just listen to the chief about why you shouldn’t do that, there is someone even more powerful you’ll meet later from whom the chief derives authority). But if there is not god, you don’t have to search for the reason why god allows bad things to happen to good people. It’s actually quite soothing. There’s nothing we can do about punishing bad people who don’t get punished in life and no one is waiting on the other side to punish them. It’s pointless to worry about. People have the ability to be terrible and we punish them or we don’t. But if you believe in god and you believe that god is good, you really need to know that putin won’t get away with it. However that’s your need to feel that, to feel reassured. So you invent god, the extra-innings punisher.
Or, alternatively, consider a god who has much bigger things on his mind than the terrible goings-on of one species on one planet in the entire universe. All-powerful perhaps but also concerned with galactic, infinite and timeless happenings.
Next, put yourself in the mind of a person who believes in god but isn’t hung up on whether god is “good” or there is some delayed justice post death. I don’t know, some ancient tribal god who deals strictly in war-making and enemy vanquishing, is an angry and vengeful and cruel guy, and can be channeled when properly appeased but also can just ruin people’s lives when he feels like it. Again, no need to worry about why bad things happen to good people. It’s just life.
Or, next, yet closely related, maybe a god who does believe in the good but you are sure (or as putin at least pretends to be, though I think it’s a bit of an act) that it’s your side that’s the good and god’s on your team. That pretty much defines most of history, no? Allowed for plenty of conquest and slaughter in the name of god, right?
Fascinating. Thanks Marc for walking me through some of these possibilities. To your first q, I guess I'd say I need to feel that because without it, there is no justice, and I would like there to be justice. If there is no justice, then it's not soothing at all (at least not from my perspective): it means that everything is arbitrary and random, the rule of the strong over the weak. Then, there is no transendence and without transcendence meaning becomes that much more difficult to come by. On the last question, I suppose my reply's pretty simple. I believe I'm right when it comes to Putin. Because if God is in Putin's side, then God is *not* the most justice and according to Islamic teaching, God *is* the most just.
Fair point. I guess I should clarify what I mean by soothing - that our desires aren’t what determines things, that things are outside of our control, can help us move toward acceptance because there is often literally nothing we can do. Thus needing something to be and wanting it to be are not necessarily conjoined. We can want things to be that just can’t be and then we learn to live without them, whereas needing something to be that isn’t can leave us feeling stranded
Well said.
Well thank you :)