Thanks for these reflections, Damir. I’d like to add two points that came to mind as I read it. First, with respect to the idea of awe and religion/goodness (inspired by your visit to the mountain), there’s a good deal of research showing that the experience of awe makes people both more open to the idea of a greater power and more prosocial. Those experiencing awe slightly shift their beliefs toward the idea that God or some other greater power / causal entity exists. It’s not a road to Damascus conversion, but a subtle shift toward believing in some sort of intentionality/no randomness in the world. In the right context and with right cues, that can be a way into spirituality. But awe also makes people feel more connected and compassionate. So it kind of does the work of religion for it.
Which brings me to the second comment. We know from basic research that many elements of religious practice can enhance virtue/goodness while people do them. For example, gratitude increases honesty and generosity. Synchronized action increases compassion. Etc. All of these parts of religious practices. So religion can nudge goodness even outside of belief.
Right. It depends on your frame (and the certainty you have in it). But the prosocial part should be enhanced no matter theology. Again, not everybody of course, but data show a general nudge toward enhanced generosity/kindness during and for a little bit after the emotional experience. For anyone interested in this topic, we did an episode on this recently on my pod: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-god-works-the-science-behind-spirituality/id1587019237?i=1000606957871
Thanks Damir! Perhaps feelings grounded in bigger questions are a function of temperament, as mine has shifted over the years. It reflects that the distinctions are unclear. To harken back to secular Nietzsche (again), Zarathustra does not disabuse the old man who praises God. He does not tell him that God is dead - for God is not dead for him. Or, in his critique of positivism in Beyond Good and Evil, lauding 'livelier thinkers who are still thirsty for life…trying to win back something that was formerly an even firmer possession, some part or other of the old domain of faith of former times, perhaps the 'immortal soul', perhaps ’the old God', in short ideas by which once could live better…more vigorously and joyfully, than by ‘modern ideas’?”. Transcendence is in the eye of the beholder. Thank you again!
Stelvio Pass -- which is essentially where the Thirty Years War started -- is so totally a Damir kind of place. Hans Morgenthau's ashes are probably scattered there.
(If fun to think that in the 17th century this was considered a militarily too-easy bridge between Austria and Italy. I 've trekked my share of passes -- but I wouldn't want to do this one on foot!)
Thanks for your thoughts, Damir, but I'm afraid your lack of interest in the subject shows in the shallowness of your answers, in the avoidance of the obvious questions they raise.
Fair enough. Spiritually shallow or barren is probably a not-inaccurate way to describe me.
I’ve always held this ground, though — and from it defended the faithful. But that defense has always cut the other way, keeping faith claims as delimited as those of, say, technocratic liberalism. I do not see a path to absolute truth. If one does, that’s fine. But for me personally, it’s not convincing. That’s the root of my skepticism.
I don't presume you're spiritually shallow; that's hardly for me to judge. I'm just saying that what you wrote gives no evidence that you've thought through the questions and grounded your views intellectually.
I started to write a reply, but let me just ask, if I could, where do you values come from? Why do you have the values you do? I can give you a better answer if I know.
Thanks for these reflections, Damir. I’d like to add two points that came to mind as I read it. First, with respect to the idea of awe and religion/goodness (inspired by your visit to the mountain), there’s a good deal of research showing that the experience of awe makes people both more open to the idea of a greater power and more prosocial. Those experiencing awe slightly shift their beliefs toward the idea that God or some other greater power / causal entity exists. It’s not a road to Damascus conversion, but a subtle shift toward believing in some sort of intentionality/no randomness in the world. In the right context and with right cues, that can be a way into spirituality. But awe also makes people feel more connected and compassionate. So it kind of does the work of religion for it.
Which brings me to the second comment. We know from basic research that many elements of religious practice can enhance virtue/goodness while people do them. For example, gratitude increases honesty and generosity. Synchronized action increases compassion. Etc. All of these parts of religious practices. So religion can nudge goodness even outside of belief.
I would not dispute any of that. I guess I’m just focusing on the transcendent element. You may be nudged toward it, but… you might not, right?
Right. It depends on your frame (and the certainty you have in it). But the prosocial part should be enhanced no matter theology. Again, not everybody of course, but data show a general nudge toward enhanced generosity/kindness during and for a little bit after the emotional experience. For anyone interested in this topic, we did an episode on this recently on my pod: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-god-works-the-science-behind-spirituality/id1587019237?i=1000606957871
sorry damir i dont actually think you’re either grumpy or a nihilist but it’s called provocations
Provocation: Dear Twitter’s Audrey Horne, we need your real identity. Twin Peaks fan isn't enough, LOL
where’s the fun in that… anyway i want to keep my job. maybe if i get a book deal
Thanks Damir! Perhaps feelings grounded in bigger questions are a function of temperament, as mine has shifted over the years. It reflects that the distinctions are unclear. To harken back to secular Nietzsche (again), Zarathustra does not disabuse the old man who praises God. He does not tell him that God is dead - for God is not dead for him. Or, in his critique of positivism in Beyond Good and Evil, lauding 'livelier thinkers who are still thirsty for life…trying to win back something that was formerly an even firmer possession, some part or other of the old domain of faith of former times, perhaps the 'immortal soul', perhaps ’the old God', in short ideas by which once could live better…more vigorously and joyfully, than by ‘modern ideas’?”. Transcendence is in the eye of the beholder. Thank you again!
Stelvio Pass -- which is essentially where the Thirty Years War started -- is so totally a Damir kind of place. Hans Morgenthau's ashes are probably scattered there.
(If fun to think that in the 17th century this was considered a militarily too-easy bridge between Austria and Italy. I 've trekked my share of passes -- but I wouldn't want to do this one on foot!)
Thanks for your thoughts, Damir, but I'm afraid your lack of interest in the subject shows in the shallowness of your answers, in the avoidance of the obvious questions they raise.
Fair enough. Spiritually shallow or barren is probably a not-inaccurate way to describe me.
I’ve always held this ground, though — and from it defended the faithful. But that defense has always cut the other way, keeping faith claims as delimited as those of, say, technocratic liberalism. I do not see a path to absolute truth. If one does, that’s fine. But for me personally, it’s not convincing. That’s the root of my skepticism.
I don't presume you're spiritually shallow; that's hardly for me to judge. I'm just saying that what you wrote gives no evidence that you've thought through the questions and grounded your views intellectually.
That stings more. Where have I not gone far enough?
I started to write a reply, but let me just ask, if I could, where do you values come from? Why do you have the values you do? I can give you a better answer if I know.