Well that was unexpected. Trump to Luther (And Calvin if we must)... I've followed this pod a long time Damir, before Covid was common parlance. From an outside perspective your long arc is bending towards Jesus.
Unrelated to the post, but since you mentioned Philip Benedict I can't resist recommending another book of his, 'Graphic History: The Wars, Massacres and Troubles of Tortorel and Perrissin' (2007) -- Tortorel and Perrissin were two French printmakers in exile in Geneva who made a series of images of events from the French Wars of Religion.
Their prints portray the conflict in a dispassionate way that allowed them to appeal to both Catholics and Protestants, nothing like this had been done before.
Your commentary is always appreciated. However I don't think you've set up a fair fight.
Mostly, you're comparing something seen through the clarity of hindsight against something we're in the middle of and still struggling to make sense of. In the moment, contemporary observers of the Reformation did not have the luxury of a well-edited narrative history to superimpose over all the chaos as you now do, reading scholarly books in a comfy chair. Educated elites in Catholic circles almost certainly found it just as callow, shallow, chaotic, and perverse as you do Trumpistas. Similarly, Future historians will likely have a much cleaner read on Trumpism (or at least their books will be forced to cut out most of the chaff for the sake of readability), once the dust all settles over the coming decades.
Further, religious fights over doctrine are necessarily intellectualized and abstract in a way that political fights don't necessarily have to be. I think a fairer comparison to Trumpism might be Peronism in Argentina.
I hope I didn't draw too many conclusions. You're certainly right that many 16th century Protestants were energized by mob mentality, and many iconoclasts of the time merely thrilled at ripping things down for the sake of destruction, or from resentment.
That said, I'm persistently struck by the sheer atavism of the current moment. There's something modern about it. If liberalism makes a virtue of provisional half-truths, whatever this is makes a cult of nihilism.
Maybe Luther and Calvin were just the intellectual veneer for the same kind of formless anger, retroactively justifying forces well underway. But I'm not sure that's right.
Respectfully, I think you're mistaken. Calvin's Geneva was a totalitarian horror show, and Luther almost immediately completely lost control of the movement he had inadvertently helped start. The scale of the conflict unleashed ensured it! And that's without taking into account the wilder side of the Reformation, like the English state's cynical and corrupt looting of the monasteries, the wild excesses in e.g. Munster among the apocalyptic anabaptists, etc. If you were stuck on the ground and looked at the freed ex-"nuns" running around relishing the sexual freedom previously denied to them, the rampant looting and destruction of art and wealth, or the charlatan "prophets" getting rich off cults, you'd think that the Reformation looked nihilistic too. But as you identify, ultimately the Reformation had bigger consequences than the immediate on-the-ground results.
Similarly today, I don't think there's one "cult of nihilism," but a lot of competing different small cults of various post-liberal value-sets whose one big point of agreement is that the current liberal consensus is fatally compromised and must be torn down in order to stop various types of bleeding and rent-seeking.
Right now, things are very much still in the balance on whether or not these insurgent groups are going to be able to maintain power and cohesion long enough in order to avoid repression, and attempted reassertion of the status quo ante. Thus, there is a very strong incentive to ensure that almost all effort is redirected back into that existential struggle.
If and when there's a collapse of the liberal order, a neo-Westphalian cultural/political truce, or some other break in the action, that's when you'll see the flowering of Rightist positive visions outside the lonely likes of Pat Deneen, Yoram Hazony, etc.
Really interesting on the flowering of positive visions. I was more optimistic about that earlier this year.
But Calvin's Geneva as a "totalitarian horror show" — that feels a bit like it's inflected with present-bias, mixed with Catholic propaganda of the time. Nowhere in Europe looked like anything approaching a modern society, and Calvin's Geneva to me seems like six of one good thing, half a dozen of another deplorable thing.
As for your Luther point, it's exactly what I'm getting at: he inadvertently helped start something, and the stakes for it were real at least at least at the start. What I'm seeing in Trumpism right now is a cheap nihilist negation of what came before, a kind of lazy and immature spasm.
Like I said, maybe you're right, I hope you're right, and after the fire stops burning the thinking will begin. But Iike I wrote, i wonder if we're not headed for a bunch of pointless and increasingly destructive pendulum swings.
When reflecting on the furious hihilism that we see on the right, my mind always goes back to an FB interlocutor, smart guy, good father, movie buff, not an academic, veteran, religious, Midwesterner, well educated in engineering or something, reasonably prosperous. His deep, and to my mind, irrational disgust with America showed up during the Obama years.
He was talking about "burning it all down" even before Trump showed up, but when Trump did, it was manna from heaven for him. He expected Trump'sperformance would have a 70-30chance of being a disaster, but he welcomed the wreckage.
America had just failed all his most fervent expectations. Despite his safety, comfort, health, freedoms, etc., he was immensely bitter. The post-9/11 wars had failed, Bush had disappointed him (especially on immigration), Romney screwed the election in '12, the culture kept sliding towards wokeness (the NFL and Taylor Swift were particular disappointments), and while not a crude racist, he had your typical conservative's affection for America as it was in his youth--whiter, more male-dominated, sexually less permissive, etc.--and was discomfitted by all the changes taking place.
What surprises me with him--and with so many conservatives I know or read--is how apocalyptic they've become. America's never been paradise--nobody gets all they want--but it basically works these days. It's a democracy, there's rule of law, there's money to be made, you don't have to bribe the police, the ER will (sort of) fix you for free if necessary, and on and on. It can be incredibly stupid sometimes (especially in foreign policy, but even there, at least there's no draft anymore!), it's culture is quite a shit-show in many realms, there's lots and lots of injustice, yet it still ambles along and even improves (arguably) by some metrics.
This idea that "If it won't be what we want it to be, we're going to wreck it!" just seems fundamentally immature, and in a way that's just so bizarre and self-harming, it cries out for a plausible explanation--one I'm not sure I've seen yet.
But I enjoyed this article, it's thought provoking and smart and well-written, and I look forward to more on this topic.
As for bending toward Jesus, I really think there's no better direction to bend toward. Maybe add some C.S. Lewis to the beside pile if you haven't already.
Damir, Bernie not only was/is Bernie not a Democrat but he refused to register as a Democrat. Why should the party owe him a presidential nomination if he doesn't earn/deserve it?
Gosh, before I unsubscribe, I wonder if "The real danger, I think, is not that it will have destroyed too much of what came before. All that had to go because it was legitimately hollow," includes decades of scientific research that saves lives, lying about vaccines so that measles is once again killing our children, destroying protections to curb global warming and climate pollution with no thought to our children and grandchildren (gosh, maybe it was a hoax?), our neighbors deported for the color of their skin, Black and brown people fired for same, unleashing hate and bigotry as patriotism. Hmmm
I think you may be mistaking his critique of technocracy and liberalism for liberalism's sake for a critique of all these other things. He certainly isn't endorsing the platform of this 'reformation' at least in my read.
Perhaps. If so, then phrases like "all that had to go" strike this reader as cavalier. If he means to be ironic or humorous, I'm not able to see either in the current stream of sewage emanating from the regime.
The point was that the status quo ante was not going to make it. If it wasn’t Trump, it’d’ve been Bernie or any number of his Jacobin acolytes who have as little nostalgia for liberalism’s pieties as Trump.
What makes it seem I’m playing a game? Would I have to wring my hands more to convey I’m serious?
I try to keep my writing as free of exhortation as possible and try to be as honest as possible. I have several times this year confessed that Trump’s destruction has felt necessary (all linked in the piece above). And I’m not walking any of that back — while still pointing to how empty it is.
Hopefully my anecdotal approach and interiority, even if it’s quixotic, will shake someone looking for easy comfort. That’s all I’m trying for.
Thanks for your consideration. This thread has evolved to a place that is beyond my ability to respond. Too many complexities that feel too nuanced, that I can't simplify. I appreciate the discussion and wish you a healthy new year.
“All had to go…” while a bit hyperbolic, was plainly accurate during the J6 Insurrection. The example of the Reformation “democratizing” religion is appropriate. The lack of a clear vision of reform or the sheer will to make it happen is damning. Even with a clear vision of purpose, the religious wars surrounding the Reformation were apocalyptic.
An European once noted that for a young country, the U.S. has an awfully old constitution. In contrast, most of Europe had to write new constitutions after WWII. We’re living with a relic from the 18th century and shocked that it is dysfunctional in the 21st. Yes, it all has to go and a Constitutional Convention is long past due. The question is how extensive the crisis must be to focus our attention?
I mean, there's two sides to every coin. The sewage of the old regime was endless wars, open borders, open trade, abortion, godlessness, cancel culture, the general superiority complex of coastal elites, the cost of living, gender revolution. That was the old status quo. I'm not saying Trump has the answers, but I did just describe how he won, even without my vote.
Err, just to pick out a personal one, *which* God do you have in mind? As an ethnic Jew, I get a little worried about such talk. Can I say Jesus Christ was not the Messiah? Or goes that get me in trouble in this new regime? (brr ....).
I was speaking more to the secular disdain of religion in the academy for the past 50 years. As an American and free speech absolutist, of course I wouldn't object to you saying whatever you like.
I would prefer the “general superiority complex of coastal elites” to the naked fascist racism at the core of MAGA. “Cancel culture”? Really? This isn’t high school… Salvadorian torture centers are your idea for a solution to what?!
There certainly are other choices, but the extremist bullhorns are overpowering any quiet subtlety. Throughout history, pendulum swings tend to be polarizing. I am reminded of the Churchill quote, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they've tried everything else."
I don't really care to go into whataboutism circles. If you can't assume I also disagree with torture centers, then you're being a bit disingenuous, wouldn't you agree?
The only plain thing here is online discourse on this piece seem to be missing the point.
Ironically this tit and tat along old lines of partisan whining just steel man's the case for the teardown of the old regime.
You must define your term, "old regime." That could include the Founding Fathers, Abraham Lincoln, FDR (and Teddy), Ronald Regan, and leading to this current dumpster fire. That is why I am calling for a clean slate wiping and a Constitutional Convention. What we currently have is dysfunctional and has been so for decades. No more bandaids on this gaping wound.
The correct axis to understand Trump is "Individual vs. State.
The real danger is the faceless, unrelenting power of the permanent bureaucracy. That beast has neutered all all feedback mechanisms, co-opted all real competitors and waged unlimited war on all possible enemies.
Despite that though evil, Trump has in his own way been chopping most effectively at the roots.
His vision, ceaseless energy, and proper targeting has broken any illusions and liberated the public.
There is a shadow side to Puritan America and the deification of capitalism. I return to this post of mine that is now even more pertainate than when I wrote it years ago. It seems that God deems that billionaire autocrates are santified in their pillage of fellow humans.
"But, at the core of Puritanism was the belief that hard work was godly, and wealth was a visible sign that one was ‘doing God’s work’. Out of this belief that salvation was an individual mandate were born the beginnings of individualistic liberal capitalism and the sanctification of greed and inequity. If I have more than you, it is obvious that God favors me more and therefore I am better than you. The Old World feudalism of land became the New World feudalism of commerce with robber-baron industrialists filling the role of feudal barons. The poor farm and factory workers assumed the role of serfdom and the ‘rat race’ was born.
Fast forward to now and we can see these roots of Puritanism and worship of commerce is at the core of today’s discontent. Wealth inequity is not a flaw, but a feature of the system. Racial, social, gender and economic imbalances are ‘God’s plan’. Any challenge to this is a sacrilege and a sign of impurity and weakness. Those in need are being ‘punished by God for their sins’ and need to suffer until they see the error of their ways and ask for ‘divine intervention’. Compassion has no place in this transactional religious extremism; the more you suffer, the greater your sin and the more you deserve to suffer."
Well that was unexpected. Trump to Luther (And Calvin if we must)... I've followed this pod a long time Damir, before Covid was common parlance. From an outside perspective your long arc is bending towards Jesus.
Unrelated to the post, but since you mentioned Philip Benedict I can't resist recommending another book of his, 'Graphic History: The Wars, Massacres and Troubles of Tortorel and Perrissin' (2007) -- Tortorel and Perrissin were two French printmakers in exile in Geneva who made a series of images of events from the French Wars of Religion.
Their prints portray the conflict in a dispassionate way that allowed them to appeal to both Catholics and Protestants, nothing like this had been done before.
Benedict's book is great on the history of portraying events and history of propaganda, and the illustrations are splendid. Preview online: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Graphic_History/ZO75rkTPt5QC?hl=en
Your commentary is always appreciated. However I don't think you've set up a fair fight.
Mostly, you're comparing something seen through the clarity of hindsight against something we're in the middle of and still struggling to make sense of. In the moment, contemporary observers of the Reformation did not have the luxury of a well-edited narrative history to superimpose over all the chaos as you now do, reading scholarly books in a comfy chair. Educated elites in Catholic circles almost certainly found it just as callow, shallow, chaotic, and perverse as you do Trumpistas. Similarly, Future historians will likely have a much cleaner read on Trumpism (or at least their books will be forced to cut out most of the chaff for the sake of readability), once the dust all settles over the coming decades.
Further, religious fights over doctrine are necessarily intellectualized and abstract in a way that political fights don't necessarily have to be. I think a fairer comparison to Trumpism might be Peronism in Argentina.
I hope I didn't draw too many conclusions. You're certainly right that many 16th century Protestants were energized by mob mentality, and many iconoclasts of the time merely thrilled at ripping things down for the sake of destruction, or from resentment.
That said, I'm persistently struck by the sheer atavism of the current moment. There's something modern about it. If liberalism makes a virtue of provisional half-truths, whatever this is makes a cult of nihilism.
Maybe Luther and Calvin were just the intellectual veneer for the same kind of formless anger, retroactively justifying forces well underway. But I'm not sure that's right.
Respectfully, I think you're mistaken. Calvin's Geneva was a totalitarian horror show, and Luther almost immediately completely lost control of the movement he had inadvertently helped start. The scale of the conflict unleashed ensured it! And that's without taking into account the wilder side of the Reformation, like the English state's cynical and corrupt looting of the monasteries, the wild excesses in e.g. Munster among the apocalyptic anabaptists, etc. If you were stuck on the ground and looked at the freed ex-"nuns" running around relishing the sexual freedom previously denied to them, the rampant looting and destruction of art and wealth, or the charlatan "prophets" getting rich off cults, you'd think that the Reformation looked nihilistic too. But as you identify, ultimately the Reformation had bigger consequences than the immediate on-the-ground results.
Similarly today, I don't think there's one "cult of nihilism," but a lot of competing different small cults of various post-liberal value-sets whose one big point of agreement is that the current liberal consensus is fatally compromised and must be torn down in order to stop various types of bleeding and rent-seeking.
Right now, things are very much still in the balance on whether or not these insurgent groups are going to be able to maintain power and cohesion long enough in order to avoid repression, and attempted reassertion of the status quo ante. Thus, there is a very strong incentive to ensure that almost all effort is redirected back into that existential struggle.
If and when there's a collapse of the liberal order, a neo-Westphalian cultural/political truce, or some other break in the action, that's when you'll see the flowering of Rightist positive visions outside the lonely likes of Pat Deneen, Yoram Hazony, etc.
Really interesting on the flowering of positive visions. I was more optimistic about that earlier this year.
But Calvin's Geneva as a "totalitarian horror show" — that feels a bit like it's inflected with present-bias, mixed with Catholic propaganda of the time. Nowhere in Europe looked like anything approaching a modern society, and Calvin's Geneva to me seems like six of one good thing, half a dozen of another deplorable thing.
As for your Luther point, it's exactly what I'm getting at: he inadvertently helped start something, and the stakes for it were real at least at least at the start. What I'm seeing in Trumpism right now is a cheap nihilist negation of what came before, a kind of lazy and immature spasm.
Like I said, maybe you're right, I hope you're right, and after the fire stops burning the thinking will begin. But Iike I wrote, i wonder if we're not headed for a bunch of pointless and increasingly destructive pendulum swings.
What a long winded rambling word salad with a very hard to follow twist of path.
Go write speeches for Kamala.
You say that like it's a bad thing! We need to consume more salads!
Absolutely. MORE GREENS!!!!
When reflecting on the furious hihilism that we see on the right, my mind always goes back to an FB interlocutor, smart guy, good father, movie buff, not an academic, veteran, religious, Midwesterner, well educated in engineering or something, reasonably prosperous. His deep, and to my mind, irrational disgust with America showed up during the Obama years.
He was talking about "burning it all down" even before Trump showed up, but when Trump did, it was manna from heaven for him. He expected Trump'sperformance would have a 70-30chance of being a disaster, but he welcomed the wreckage.
America had just failed all his most fervent expectations. Despite his safety, comfort, health, freedoms, etc., he was immensely bitter. The post-9/11 wars had failed, Bush had disappointed him (especially on immigration), Romney screwed the election in '12, the culture kept sliding towards wokeness (the NFL and Taylor Swift were particular disappointments), and while not a crude racist, he had your typical conservative's affection for America as it was in his youth--whiter, more male-dominated, sexually less permissive, etc.--and was discomfitted by all the changes taking place.
What surprises me with him--and with so many conservatives I know or read--is how apocalyptic they've become. America's never been paradise--nobody gets all they want--but it basically works these days. It's a democracy, there's rule of law, there's money to be made, you don't have to bribe the police, the ER will (sort of) fix you for free if necessary, and on and on. It can be incredibly stupid sometimes (especially in foreign policy, but even there, at least there's no draft anymore!), it's culture is quite a shit-show in many realms, there's lots and lots of injustice, yet it still ambles along and even improves (arguably) by some metrics.
This idea that "If it won't be what we want it to be, we're going to wreck it!" just seems fundamentally immature, and in a way that's just so bizarre and self-harming, it cries out for a plausible explanation--one I'm not sure I've seen yet.
But I enjoyed this article, it's thought provoking and smart and well-written, and I look forward to more on this topic.
As for bending toward Jesus, I really think there's no better direction to bend toward. Maybe add some C.S. Lewis to the beside pile if you haven't already.
It strikes me that you're doing the following cartoon, but unironically:
https://condenaststore.com/featured/these-smug-pilots-have-lost-touch-with-regular-will-mcphail.html
Publication: New Yorker Image Type: Cartoon Date: January 9th, 2017
Caption: "These smug pilots have lost touch with regular passengers like us. Who thinks I should fly the plane?"
Description: Passenger rallies to fly the plane instead of the pilot; an allegory for this past election.
It strikes me you imagine that cartoon to be incisive.
Damir, Bernie not only was/is Bernie not a Democrat but he refused to register as a Democrat. Why should the party owe him a presidential nomination if he doesn't earn/deserve it?
Gosh, before I unsubscribe, I wonder if "The real danger, I think, is not that it will have destroyed too much of what came before. All that had to go because it was legitimately hollow," includes decades of scientific research that saves lives, lying about vaccines so that measles is once again killing our children, destroying protections to curb global warming and climate pollution with no thought to our children and grandchildren (gosh, maybe it was a hoax?), our neighbors deported for the color of their skin, Black and brown people fired for same, unleashing hate and bigotry as patriotism. Hmmm
Hmmm
I think you may be mistaking his critique of technocracy and liberalism for liberalism's sake for a critique of all these other things. He certainly isn't endorsing the platform of this 'reformation' at least in my read.
Perhaps. If so, then phrases like "all that had to go" strike this reader as cavalier. If he means to be ironic or humorous, I'm not able to see either in the current stream of sewage emanating from the regime.
The point was that the status quo ante was not going to make it. If it wasn’t Trump, it’d’ve been Bernie or any number of his Jacobin acolytes who have as little nostalgia for liberalism’s pieties as Trump.
Thanks for replying. It's just not a game to me.
What makes it seem I’m playing a game? Would I have to wring my hands more to convey I’m serious?
I try to keep my writing as free of exhortation as possible and try to be as honest as possible. I have several times this year confessed that Trump’s destruction has felt necessary (all linked in the piece above). And I’m not walking any of that back — while still pointing to how empty it is.
Hopefully my anecdotal approach and interiority, even if it’s quixotic, will shake someone looking for easy comfort. That’s all I’m trying for.
Thanks for your consideration. This thread has evolved to a place that is beyond my ability to respond. Too many complexities that feel too nuanced, that I can't simplify. I appreciate the discussion and wish you a healthy new year.
“All had to go…” while a bit hyperbolic, was plainly accurate during the J6 Insurrection. The example of the Reformation “democratizing” religion is appropriate. The lack of a clear vision of reform or the sheer will to make it happen is damning. Even with a clear vision of purpose, the religious wars surrounding the Reformation were apocalyptic.
An European once noted that for a young country, the U.S. has an awfully old constitution. In contrast, most of Europe had to write new constitutions after WWII. We’re living with a relic from the 18th century and shocked that it is dysfunctional in the 21st. Yes, it all has to go and a Constitutional Convention is long past due. The question is how extensive the crisis must be to focus our attention?
I mean, there's two sides to every coin. The sewage of the old regime was endless wars, open borders, open trade, abortion, godlessness, cancel culture, the general superiority complex of coastal elites, the cost of living, gender revolution. That was the old status quo. I'm not saying Trump has the answers, but I did just describe how he won, even without my vote.
Err, just to pick out a personal one, *which* God do you have in mind? As an ethnic Jew, I get a little worried about such talk. Can I say Jesus Christ was not the Messiah? Or goes that get me in trouble in this new regime? (brr ....).
I was speaking more to the secular disdain of religion in the academy for the past 50 years. As an American and free speech absolutist, of course I wouldn't object to you saying whatever you like.
I would prefer the “general superiority complex of coastal elites” to the naked fascist racism at the core of MAGA. “Cancel culture”? Really? This isn’t high school… Salvadorian torture centers are your idea for a solution to what?!
I'd like to think there's something else that's neither of the two.
There certainly are other choices, but the extremist bullhorns are overpowering any quiet subtlety. Throughout history, pendulum swings tend to be polarizing. I am reminded of the Churchill quote, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they've tried everything else."
I don't really care to go into whataboutism circles. If you can't assume I also disagree with torture centers, then you're being a bit disingenuous, wouldn't you agree?
The only plain thing here is online discourse on this piece seem to be missing the point.
Ironically this tit and tat along old lines of partisan whining just steel man's the case for the teardown of the old regime.
You must define your term, "old regime." That could include the Founding Fathers, Abraham Lincoln, FDR (and Teddy), Ronald Regan, and leading to this current dumpster fire. That is why I am calling for a clean slate wiping and a Constitutional Convention. What we currently have is dysfunctional and has been so for decades. No more bandaids on this gaping wound.
The correct axis to understand Trump is "Individual vs. State.
The real danger is the faceless, unrelenting power of the permanent bureaucracy. That beast has neutered all all feedback mechanisms, co-opted all real competitors and waged unlimited war on all possible enemies.
Despite that though evil, Trump has in his own way been chopping most effectively at the roots.
His vision, ceaseless energy, and proper targeting has broken any illusions and liberated the public.
There is a shadow side to Puritan America and the deification of capitalism. I return to this post of mine that is now even more pertainate than when I wrote it years ago. It seems that God deems that billionaire autocrates are santified in their pillage of fellow humans.
"But, at the core of Puritanism was the belief that hard work was godly, and wealth was a visible sign that one was ‘doing God’s work’. Out of this belief that salvation was an individual mandate were born the beginnings of individualistic liberal capitalism and the sanctification of greed and inequity. If I have more than you, it is obvious that God favors me more and therefore I am better than you. The Old World feudalism of land became the New World feudalism of commerce with robber-baron industrialists filling the role of feudal barons. The poor farm and factory workers assumed the role of serfdom and the ‘rat race’ was born.
Fast forward to now and we can see these roots of Puritanism and worship of commerce is at the core of today’s discontent. Wealth inequity is not a flaw, but a feature of the system. Racial, social, gender and economic imbalances are ‘God’s plan’. Any challenge to this is a sacrilege and a sign of impurity and weakness. Those in need are being ‘punished by God for their sins’ and need to suffer until they see the error of their ways and ask for ‘divine intervention’. Compassion has no place in this transactional religious extremism; the more you suffer, the greater your sin and the more you deserve to suffer."
https://substack.com/home/post/p-136258136?selection=7648f5cc-d1cd-472b-8bcd-8cba7ff90440
Short story on that https://nimnim1.substack.com/p/poly-hell