What makes you say they aren't doing the work of articulating it? Is the average maker of their own meaning really that much worse than the average cliche-spouting Christian? Putting a philosophy into words can be hard, but that doesn't mean the underlying feeling has no true engagement to it.
I have a hard time giving credence to anyone who does what they do but cannot articulate why they do it. Usually that's a good indication they don't even realize what they are doing... such is the wisdom of crowds.
Now to your point, people who live in uninterrogated stereotypes and who like to tell everyone else how to walk without trying on their shoes are just as bad. I hope you don't confuse me for one of them.
I was imagining the anecdotes of people I care about, who don't really engage with the fact they will die, and they don't really know what happens to them afterwards. (Knowing, not as a factual knowing, but as a confidence in conviction knowing). These friends seem to me to be living shadow lives... constantly in denial and seeking distraction from the hard realities of life. They are very much all for the here-and-now. But they do not know how to grieve when a loved one dies, they avoid pain and suffering at all costs, they prefer their soma, to borrow from Huxley.
At best these friends when asked, allude to some variation of Moral Therapeutic Deism, the sharpest of the bunch insist they are Atheists, but the contradictions left untouched are too many to count.
So, I guess that is the question... what is an example of someone engaging an underlying feeling without words?
Lots of people feel things without being able to articulate them. It is a theme of this very discussion that one can be too reasonable, that oneтАЩs actions can be too explainable, that there ought to be room for the inexplicable in the human psyche. Far from believing that people ought to be able to articulate their reasons, it seems to me that Damir is claiming the opposite.
Now, you might very well protest that you were trying to refer to a very different type of person: not the one who is silent before the inarticulable but the one who never considers it in the first place. But judging others in this manner is a perilous enterprise. I would rather be alert to peopleтАЩs potential hidden depths on so personal a topic than be pre-emptively dismissive of all who have not proved themselves to me. Why should they have to prove anything to me in the first place?
Good points, I choose that latter example: The one who never considers it in the first place. And I agree, we should look out for hubris when judging others. But to be fair, I don't dismiss these sorts... they are all around me, and in my community. Which is why you should want them to prove that they are asking hard questions and wrestling with the "why?" of their lives. In my view, they owe it to me to think deeply and I to them. We are after all small group mammals, built for tight knit communities, and these enterprises inform the culture which we're all critiquing. My harrumphing above was mostly that I feel I'm one of the few doing the work... I suppose.
As Shadi says: the human being contains multitudes... I try to remember that. But there's also a tension for me in that I believe people should be able to show me faith AND works, (to reappropriate St. James.)
I'm amazed by how many people choose this path, most of which don't do the work to articulate that this is what they are choosing.
What makes you say they aren't doing the work of articulating it? Is the average maker of their own meaning really that much worse than the average cliche-spouting Christian? Putting a philosophy into words can be hard, but that doesn't mean the underlying feeling has no true engagement to it.
I have a hard time giving credence to anyone who does what they do but cannot articulate why they do it. Usually that's a good indication they don't even realize what they are doing... such is the wisdom of crowds.
Now to your point, people who live in uninterrogated stereotypes and who like to tell everyone else how to walk without trying on their shoes are just as bad. I hope you don't confuse me for one of them.
I was imagining the anecdotes of people I care about, who don't really engage with the fact they will die, and they don't really know what happens to them afterwards. (Knowing, not as a factual knowing, but as a confidence in conviction knowing). These friends seem to me to be living shadow lives... constantly in denial and seeking distraction from the hard realities of life. They are very much all for the here-and-now. But they do not know how to grieve when a loved one dies, they avoid pain and suffering at all costs, they prefer their soma, to borrow from Huxley.
At best these friends when asked, allude to some variation of Moral Therapeutic Deism, the sharpest of the bunch insist they are Atheists, but the contradictions left untouched are too many to count.
So, I guess that is the question... what is an example of someone engaging an underlying feeling without words?
Lots of people feel things without being able to articulate them. It is a theme of this very discussion that one can be too reasonable, that oneтАЩs actions can be too explainable, that there ought to be room for the inexplicable in the human psyche. Far from believing that people ought to be able to articulate their reasons, it seems to me that Damir is claiming the opposite.
Now, you might very well protest that you were trying to refer to a very different type of person: not the one who is silent before the inarticulable but the one who never considers it in the first place. But judging others in this manner is a perilous enterprise. I would rather be alert to peopleтАЩs potential hidden depths on so personal a topic than be pre-emptively dismissive of all who have not proved themselves to me. Why should they have to prove anything to me in the first place?
Good points, I choose that latter example: The one who never considers it in the first place. And I agree, we should look out for hubris when judging others. But to be fair, I don't dismiss these sorts... they are all around me, and in my community. Which is why you should want them to prove that they are asking hard questions and wrestling with the "why?" of their lives. In my view, they owe it to me to think deeply and I to them. We are after all small group mammals, built for tight knit communities, and these enterprises inform the culture which we're all critiquing. My harrumphing above was mostly that I feel I'm one of the few doing the work... I suppose.
As Shadi says: the human being contains multitudes... I try to remember that. But there's also a tension for me in that I believe people should be able to show me faith AND works, (to reappropriate St. James.)
What are the contradictions of atheism?
This is a bigger question I spent the weekend mulling over. I don't have as clear an answer as I alluded to above, so I apologize.