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This was such a privilege to listen to. I'll definitely pick up a copy of Jordan's book after listening to this! I also wondered, on the question of beauty, and does it need outside recognition to flourish, can we apply this more broadly? So, for instance, if i get repeatedly told I am ugly do I have to accept that or can I still see some beauty that others are missing? Is that not the same with a piece of work to some extent?

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Thanks. Fascinating interview.

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