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Sam Mace's avatar

Thanks for this enlightening discussion. It really resonated with me personally as unlike Shadi I have found a partner but I still have that feeling where unhappiness looms over me not unlike a shadow ready and waiting to grab me at any moment. I tend to believe happiness is a rare state- something that can be felt only for intermittent periods, necessarily transient even if it can be transcendent.

I do also think arguably the decline in marriage is a result of shifting social norms. We are now told family is insufficient or even 'heteronormative' which is essentially a code word for a problematic idea. Instead, we should all 'rock out with our cocks out' as the fictional Marcy Runkle said from the show Californication. Yet, the end result has been a dearth in intimacy, trust, sex, and love. Replaced with a culture where we consume a lot and put great emphasis on 'living our best lives' while being extremely scared in the process. If late stage liberalism has told us anything it's that this type of living is not in the long run sustainable without significant shift changes.

Finally, I think to be loved, as in the bell hooks definition, is an important part of life and ourselves. It's also why I have rarely been convinced about polyamorous relationships in the long run, at least from my own perspective if not others. It strikes me that kind of love is especially rare and I'm not sure if you can fully possess it for more than a singular being.

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Kip Dooley's avatar

I really enjoyed this discussion, and would love to hear a podcast episode where you think through your agreements and disagreements out loud together. By most metrics, I myself am a leftist or liberal: I am a writer who works in philanthropy and was shaped by "elite" academic spaces during the rise of the DEI / social justice regimes. More and more, however (and I sense I am not alone in this), I am drawn to those external structures like religion, family and community that impose boundaries on my individual freedom and require that I take responsibility for some collective and higher good.

Why? I have simply found in adulthood that the default modern liberal pathways of orienting my life around my own pleasures -- and even my own pursuit of higher meaning -- were staircases to nowhere, and that the deeper sense of freedom and fulfillment I was after comes not through removing constraints, but by choosing the right ones.

The ultimate emptiness of life under late stage liberal capitalism explains, I think, why so many young men were captivated by pseudo-philosophers like Jordan Peterson (is he still popular? no idea...) who say, "no, actually, there are some hard, unchangeable truths about the world, and the good life starts by imposing some boundaries and discipline upon yourself." What is at stake is not just your happiness, but your soul (if you believe in such a thing.)

I am finally reading Patrick Deneen's book "Why Liberalism Failed," and I would love to hear you take on some of his claims about liberalism and human nature. I.e. "as an ideology, it pretends to neutrality, claiming no preference and denying any intention of shaping the souls under its rule." How do you think each of your views (and your souls, if you don't mind?) have been shaped by liberalism? And to what extent do you consciously push against it?

And to Kristina, you use the term "existential" a few times, but I'm not sure what you mean. I adore Camus and often quote him, "one must imagine Sisyphus happy"...do you see yourself as a descendant of some particular strand of existentialism? If so, do you find that it affords you some kind of useful map for the terrain you're navigating now at midlife with so much change around you?

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